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	<title>Comments on: CO2 Negated As Cause of Global Warming</title>
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		<title>By: co2hound</title>
		<link>http://wallstreetpit.com/32342-co2-negated-as-cause-of-global-warming#comment-217845</link>
		<dc:creator>co2hound</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2010 15:55:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wallstreetpit.com/?p=32342#comment-217845</guid>
		<description>Polkyb and CanuckDriver, 
 
Thanks for your replies. 
 
Of course the science offered on the BBC program may not be the most recent on the topic.  
 
At good video on the snowball earth with the latest in the science on the matter is: 
  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.agu.org/meetings/fm09/lectures/lecture_videos/A23A.shtml&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;http://www.agu.org/meetings/fm09/lectures/lecture...&lt;/a&gt; 
 
Caution, this presenter is very high bandwidth! It is a talk given at the American Geophysical Union by Dr. Richard Alley.  
 
Here&#039;s another example of CO2 being a temperature regulator from earth&#039;s history. 
 
There is one event, I&#039;m sure you are aware of, the PETM (about 55 million years ago) when the spike in CO2 from natural sources was similar to the spike in CO2 we are seeing today. The CO2 went directly into the oceans causing them to acidify and the land temperatures increased rapidly. Bottom line, 95% of the species on the world died.  
 
The oceans are 30% acidic over baselines right now and this number is growing. 
 
This event gets as close to the rapidity of the CO2 increase in our atmosphere today as the natural world can get. It&#039;s happening faster today, about 10 times faster. And we are the new volcanoes on the planet. We release about 100 times as much CO2 into the atmosphere as all the current volcanoes combined. 
 
So in the past things happened much slower because natural forces work on their own time. Today we are making things happen much faster.  
 
We are committed to 2 C warming right now because we have about 450 ppm equivalent CO2 in the atmosphere. We are at about .74 C over baseline right now and getting hotter. 
 
The sulphur you talk about would cool the globe ... in fact is that not what people are thinking about blowing into our upper atmosphere to provide a heat shield for the planet? 
 
Indeed, many people are very concerned over this issue because physics is physics. It does not matter what anyone cares, believes or wants to happen. We are committed to a much hotter world in the near future and we as a species and all the other species alive today have, like us, no experience with these kinds of changes.  
 
Increased CO2 causes plants to uptake fixed nitrogen faster which reduces the fixed nitrogen in the soil. After certain concentrations are reached, on a per species basis, production falls off. Add to this problem the one of heating and drying of our &#039;breadbaskets&#039; and we will be faced with food underproduction problems. Of course, we can use man made nitrogen fertilizer made from .... you guessed it .... natural gas. Heating, drying, CO2 pollution and flooding .... its a deadly mix for a population that will be running out of resources over the next 100 years and be 30% larger than today.  
 
Looks like to me our species is in for a &#039;spanking&#039;. 
 
Regards to all. 
 
 
 
 
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Polkyb and CanuckDriver, </p>
<p>Thanks for your replies. </p>
<p>Of course the science offered on the BBC program may not be the most recent on the topic.  </p>
<p>At good video on the snowball earth with the latest in the science on the matter is:<br />
  <a href="http://www.agu.org/meetings/fm09/lectures/lecture_videos/A23A.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.agu.org/meetings/fm09/lectures/lecture&#8230;</a> </p>
<p>Caution, this presenter is very high bandwidth! It is a talk given at the American Geophysical Union by Dr. Richard Alley.  </p>
<p>Here&#039;s another example of CO2 being a temperature regulator from earth&#039;s history. </p>
<p>There is one event, I&#039;m sure you are aware of, the PETM (about 55 million years ago) when the spike in CO2 from natural sources was similar to the spike in CO2 we are seeing today. The CO2 went directly into the oceans causing them to acidify and the land temperatures increased rapidly. Bottom line, 95% of the species on the world died.  </p>
<p>The oceans are 30% acidic over baselines right now and this number is growing. </p>
<p>This event gets as close to the rapidity of the CO2 increase in our atmosphere today as the natural world can get. It&#039;s happening faster today, about 10 times faster. And we are the new volcanoes on the planet. We release about 100 times as much CO2 into the atmosphere as all the current volcanoes combined. </p>
<p>So in the past things happened much slower because natural forces work on their own time. Today we are making things happen much faster.  </p>
<p>We are committed to 2 C warming right now because we have about 450 ppm equivalent CO2 in the atmosphere. We are at about .74 C over baseline right now and getting hotter. </p>
<p>The sulphur you talk about would cool the globe &#8230; in fact is that not what people are thinking about blowing into our upper atmosphere to provide a heat shield for the planet? </p>
<p>Indeed, many people are very concerned over this issue because physics is physics. It does not matter what anyone cares, believes or wants to happen. We are committed to a much hotter world in the near future and we as a species and all the other species alive today have, like us, no experience with these kinds of changes.  </p>
<p>Increased CO2 causes plants to uptake fixed nitrogen faster which reduces the fixed nitrogen in the soil. After certain concentrations are reached, on a per species basis, production falls off. Add to this problem the one of heating and drying of our &#039;breadbaskets&#039; and we will be faced with food underproduction problems. Of course, we can use man made nitrogen fertilizer made from &#8230;. you guessed it &#8230;. natural gas. Heating, drying, CO2 pollution and flooding &#8230;. its a deadly mix for a population that will be running out of resources over the next 100 years and be 30% larger than today.  </p>
<p>Looks like to me our species is in for a &#039;spanking&#039;. </p>
<p>Regards to all.</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Battye</title>
		<link>http://wallstreetpit.com/32342-co2-negated-as-cause-of-global-warming#comment-217000</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Battye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 16:12:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wallstreetpit.com/?p=32342#comment-217000</guid>
		<description>What? 
 
You are saying that CO2 causes global warming by increasing after the temperature increases! 
 
Calm down fella, and start thinking. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What? </p>
<p>You are saying that CO2 causes global warming by increasing after the temperature increases! </p>
<p>Calm down fella, and start thinking.</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Battye</title>
		<link>http://wallstreetpit.com/32342-co2-negated-as-cause-of-global-warming#comment-216993</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Battye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 16:08:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wallstreetpit.com/?p=32342#comment-216993</guid>
		<description>The CO2 follows the temperature change by about 800 years. 
 
The problem most of us have is with the CO2 story. It isn&#039;t doing anything much to the climate yet we are supposed to stop burning stuff to reduce an already tiny trace gas , 0.038% of our atmosphere. The global dislocation of doing so is immense and yet we are supposed to &quot;believe&quot; in CAGW caused through CO2 on the grounds that &quot; we can&#039;t find anything else&quot;. 
 
 
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The CO2 follows the temperature change by about 800 years. </p>
<p>The problem most of us have is with the CO2 story. It isn&#039;t doing anything much to the climate yet we are supposed to stop burning stuff to reduce an already tiny trace gas , 0.038% of our atmosphere. The global dislocation of doing so is immense and yet we are supposed to &quot;believe&quot; in CAGW caused through CO2 on the grounds that &quot; we can&#039;t find anything else&quot;.</p>
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		<title>By: polkyb</title>
		<link>http://wallstreetpit.com/32342-co2-negated-as-cause-of-global-warming#comment-213849</link>
		<dc:creator>polkyb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jul 2010 13:37:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wallstreetpit.com/?p=32342#comment-213849</guid>
		<description>The story is correct... The earth was completely frozen between 600 and 720 million years ago.. If you find it, look for an episode of the BBCs Horizon programme called &quot;Snowball Earth&quot; 
 
They tell you how it happened, what evidence they have that it DID happen and how they THEORISE that the world warmed up again... The theory of recovery, however, is NOT based on CO2 creating a feedback and warming the globe. 
The scientists in the programme came to the conclusion that it was the massive amounts of airbourne sulphur dioxide and sulphurous soot covering the ice, all spewed from volcanos, which eventually allowed the globe to warm  (they did actually mention CO2 but disregard it as not a powerful enough greenhouse gas to have been responsible). 
Another theory floating around is that the snowball scenario was caused by the solar system passing through an area of galactic debris, causing solar diming, and when we came out the other side, the world warmed accordingly. 
 
From the first post, CO2 is always going to be our buddy. It acts as fertiliser for every plant, tree, bush, etc. on this planet; The higher the concentration, the better the plants grow. Ask your local plant nursey what gas they pump into their greenhouses. 
For all that you can expect a tiny amount of warming because of it&#039;s concentration doubling.  
 
Bargain if you ask me </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The story is correct&#8230; The earth was completely frozen between 600 and 720 million years ago.. If you find it, look for an episode of the BBCs Horizon programme called &quot;Snowball Earth&quot; </p>
<p>They tell you how it happened, what evidence they have that it DID happen and how they THEORISE that the world warmed up again&#8230; The theory of recovery, however, is NOT based on CO2 creating a feedback and warming the globe.<br />
The scientists in the programme came to the conclusion that it was the massive amounts of airbourne sulphur dioxide and sulphurous soot covering the ice, all spewed from volcanos, which eventually allowed the globe to warm  (they did actually mention CO2 but disregard it as not a powerful enough greenhouse gas to have been responsible).<br />
Another theory floating around is that the snowball scenario was caused by the solar system passing through an area of galactic debris, causing solar diming, and when we came out the other side, the world warmed accordingly. </p>
<p>From the first post, CO2 is always going to be our buddy. It acts as fertiliser for every plant, tree, bush, etc. on this planet; The higher the concentration, the better the plants grow. Ask your local plant nursey what gas they pump into their greenhouses.<br />
For all that you can expect a tiny amount of warming because of it&#039;s concentration doubling.  </p>
<p>Bargain if you ask me</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Beale</title>
		<link>http://wallstreetpit.com/32342-co2-negated-as-cause-of-global-warming#comment-194030</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Beale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2010 14:17:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wallstreetpit.com/?p=32342#comment-194030</guid>
		<description>&quot;CO2 in all of geologic history has predicated the earths temperatures and climate.&quot;  Sorry, do your own data reduction from the ice core data [See &lt;a href=&quot;http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/ftp/trends/co2/vostok.icecore.co2&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/ftp/trends/co2/vostok.i...&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/ftp/trends/temp/vostok/vostok.1999.temp.dat]&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/ftp/trends/temp/vostok/...&lt;/a&gt; then be honest with your results.  You&#039;ll see that CO2 FOLLOWS temperature, it does not lead it.  If it follows, how can it be controlling temperature? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;CO2 in all of geologic history has predicated the earths temperatures and climate.&quot;  Sorry, do your own data reduction from the ice core data [See <a href="http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/ftp/trends/co2/vostok.icecore.co2" target="_blank">http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/ftp/trends/co2/vostok.i...</a> and <a href="http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/ftp/trends/temp/vostok/vostok.1999.temp.dat]&#8221; target=&#8221;_blank&#8221;>http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/ftp/trends/temp/vostok/&#8230;</a> then be honest with your results.  You&#039;ll see that CO2 FOLLOWS temperature, it does not lead it.  If it follows, how can it be controlling temperature?</p>
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		<title>By: CanuckDriver</title>
		<link>http://wallstreetpit.com/32342-co2-negated-as-cause-of-global-warming#comment-193873</link>
		<dc:creator>CanuckDriver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2010 07:10:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wallstreetpit.com/?p=32342#comment-193873</guid>
		<description>Duncan Davidson --- Good article!  Thank you. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Duncan Davidson &#8212; Good article!  Thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: CanuckDriver</title>
		<link>http://wallstreetpit.com/32342-co2-negated-as-cause-of-global-warming#comment-193872</link>
		<dc:creator>CanuckDriver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2010 07:06:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wallstreetpit.com/?p=32342#comment-193872</guid>
		<description>Well, D Bonson, how about the inclusion of totally fictitious data sets from non-existent weather stations in China?  How about the placement of weather stations in urban areas, next to parking lots and heat vents?  How about the doctoring of data to weight those readings just mentioned to make them comply with totally faulty computer models? 
 
NASA&#039;s GISS data has been shown to be totally bogus.  Just like CRU data, it has been so &quot;massaged&quot; as to be pretty much meaningless. Go do some reading..  Citing &quot;Jones et. al 2008&quot; is like citing the ENRON executives as sources of valid financial data.  The &quot;natural forcing of CO2 towards a warming climate&quot; is based on ... exactly what?  We are talking about a gas that comprises 0.039% of the Earth&#039;s atmosphere here. Of the total &quot;greenhouse gas effect&quot;, itself a very, very questionable thing, CO2 comprises just 0.0117% (US DOE website). Quite frankly, the claims being made for it by the IPCC, CRU and you are patently ludicrous. 
 
Then we have the absolutely scandalous manipulation of the peer-review process in virtually all the published &quot;climate science&quot;.  &quot;Climate science&quot; is, at this point, about as believable as Bernie Madoff. 
 
Nowhere do  you give any links to any GENUINELY peer-reviewed data.  Do you have any?    </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, D Bonson, how about the inclusion of totally fictitious data sets from non-existent weather stations in China?  How about the placement of weather stations in urban areas, next to parking lots and heat vents?  How about the doctoring of data to weight those readings just mentioned to make them comply with totally faulty computer models? </p>
<p>NASA&#039;s GISS data has been shown to be totally bogus.  Just like CRU data, it has been so &quot;massaged&quot; as to be pretty much meaningless. Go do some reading..  Citing &quot;Jones et. al 2008&quot; is like citing the ENRON executives as sources of valid financial data.  The &quot;natural forcing of CO2 towards a warming climate&quot; is based on &#8230; exactly what?  We are talking about a gas that comprises 0.039% of the Earth&#039;s atmosphere here. Of the total &quot;greenhouse gas effect&quot;, itself a very, very questionable thing, CO2 comprises just 0.0117% (US DOE website). Quite frankly, the claims being made for it by the IPCC, CRU and you are patently ludicrous. </p>
<p>Then we have the absolutely scandalous manipulation of the peer-review process in virtually all the published &quot;climate science&quot;.  &quot;Climate science&quot; is, at this point, about as believable as Bernie Madoff. </p>
<p>Nowhere do  you give any links to any GENUINELY peer-reviewed data.  Do you have any?</p>
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		<title>By: CanuckDriver</title>
		<link>http://wallstreetpit.com/32342-co2-negated-as-cause-of-global-warming#comment-193868</link>
		<dc:creator>CanuckDriver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2010 06:52:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wallstreetpit.com/?p=32342#comment-193868</guid>
		<description>Cute story, co2hound.... Got any actual data to back it up?  How about some GENUINELY peer-reviewed data?  If so, I would dearly love to look at it. 
 
Your own writings do, however, give us an interesting point..... &quot;1000s of ppm&quot;, versus today&#039;s paltry levels (391 ppm).  I&#039;d say we have a rather long way to go, wouldn&#039;t you? 
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cute story, co2hound&#8230;. Got any actual data to back it up?  How about some GENUINELY peer-reviewed data?  If so, I would dearly love to look at it. </p>
<p>Your own writings do, however, give us an interesting point&#8230;.. &quot;1000s of ppm&quot;, versus today&#039;s paltry levels (391 ppm).  I&#039;d say we have a rather long way to go, wouldn&#039;t you?</p>
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		<title>By: CanuckDriver</title>
		<link>http://wallstreetpit.com/32342-co2-negated-as-cause-of-global-warming#comment-193836</link>
		<dc:creator>CanuckDriver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2010 05:07:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wallstreetpit.com/?p=32342#comment-193836</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know what you&#039;ve been smoking, Peter, but whatever it is, it clearly has erased any hint of honesty in what you have stated.  The last decade has seen a steady decline in temperature.  Even your high-priest, Dr. Philip Jones of the CRU at East Anglia said, on BBC-TV, that &quot;there has been no statistically significant warming in the last 15 years.&quot; 
 
Virtually everything that the IPCC has whined about for the last several years has been shown to be absolute nonsense! 
 
As for the &quot;2500 scientists&quot; that &quot;signed&quot; a letter... DRIVEL.  It was concocted by a handful, sent out as an &quot;opt-out&quot; to many thousands of scientists.  To their credit, most did opt out.  Those that didn&#039;t... well maybe they didn&#039;t see the memo.... 
 
Pachauri, the IPCC, CRU, UVA, et.al. should be utterly ashamed of the fraud they have been trying to perpetuate.  I read all the Climategate e-mails and all the associated documents.  Having done so, the record is really pretty clear. 
 
The governmental whitewashes in England have ZERO credibility, since they were conducted  by those with vested interests in the &quot;green economy&quot; and therefore in the myth of AGW. 
 
Best do some serious reading.  Start with physicist Dr. John Costella&#039;s analysis of the Climategate e-mails, then try CAREFULLY reading the US Department of Energy and the Interior&#039;s website.  From there, try actually looking at the data. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#039;t know what you&#039;ve been smoking, Peter, but whatever it is, it clearly has erased any hint of honesty in what you have stated.  The last decade has seen a steady decline in temperature.  Even your high-priest, Dr. Philip Jones of the CRU at East Anglia said, on BBC-TV, that &quot;there has been no statistically significant warming in the last 15 years.&quot; </p>
<p>Virtually everything that the IPCC has whined about for the last several years has been shown to be absolute nonsense! </p>
<p>As for the &quot;2500 scientists&quot; that &quot;signed&quot; a letter&#8230; DRIVEL.  It was concocted by a handful, sent out as an &quot;opt-out&quot; to many thousands of scientists.  To their credit, most did opt out.  Those that didn&#039;t&#8230; well maybe they didn&#039;t see the memo&#8230;. </p>
<p>Pachauri, the IPCC, CRU, UVA, et.al. should be utterly ashamed of the fraud they have been trying to perpetuate.  I read all the Climategate e-mails and all the associated documents.  Having done so, the record is really pretty clear. </p>
<p>The governmental whitewashes in England have ZERO credibility, since they were conducted  by those with vested interests in the &quot;green economy&quot; and therefore in the myth of AGW. </p>
<p>Best do some serious reading.  Start with physicist Dr. John Costella&#039;s analysis of the Climategate e-mails, then try CAREFULLY reading the US Department of Energy and the Interior&#039;s website.  From there, try actually looking at the data.</p>
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		<title>By: sciemtificanomaly</title>
		<link>http://wallstreetpit.com/32342-co2-negated-as-cause-of-global-warming#comment-193763</link>
		<dc:creator>sciemtificanomaly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2010 02:37:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wallstreetpit.com/?p=32342#comment-193763</guid>
		<description>Peter S Mizla 
 
&quot;The decade 2000-2009 was the warmest on record- 2010 is likely to be the warmest year on record. Arctic Ice this summer could totally disappear from the arctic. &quot; 
 
It&#039;s such a shame that you alarmist types feel the need to indulge in fear mongering. I note with interest that you have not provided a link to a credible source to substantiate your wild assertion that the arctic ice could suffer a total meltdown this summer. This comes as no surprise and  I&#039;m afraid the latest scientific survey does not support your claim, quite the opposite actually. 
  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/Arctic+scan+dispels+meltdown+study/3161557/story.html&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/Arctic+sca...&lt;/a&gt; 
 
Rajendra Pachauri head of the IPCC and Royal Society in UK (the UK&#039;s national academy of science) have both started backing down and have been forced to issue statements that they respect AGW scepticism. Also, the so called &#039;scientific consensus&#039; is looking decidedly shaky.  
  &lt;a href=&quot;http://opinion.financialpost.com/2010/06/15/junk-science-week-climate-junk-hard-to-dump/&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;http://opinion.financialpost.com/2010/06/15/junk-...&lt;/a&gt; 
 
You are not very good at spreading alarmist propaganda on CiF forums. Perhaps you should consider taking up another hobby. 
 
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter S Mizla </p>
<p>&quot;The decade 2000-2009 was the warmest on record- 2010 is likely to be the warmest year on record. Arctic Ice this summer could totally disappear from the arctic. &quot; </p>
<p>It&#039;s such a shame that you alarmist types feel the need to indulge in fear mongering. I note with interest that you have not provided a link to a credible source to substantiate your wild assertion that the arctic ice could suffer a total meltdown this summer. This comes as no surprise and  I&#039;m afraid the latest scientific survey does not support your claim, quite the opposite actually.<br />
  <a href="http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/Arctic+scan+dispels+meltdown+study/3161557/story.html" target="_blank">http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/Arctic+sca&#8230;</a> </p>
<p>Rajendra Pachauri head of the IPCC and Royal Society in UK (the UK&#039;s national academy of science) have both started backing down and have been forced to issue statements that they respect AGW scepticism. Also, the so called &#039;scientific consensus&#039; is looking decidedly shaky.<br />
  <a href="http://opinion.financialpost.com/2010/06/15/junk-science-week-climate-junk-hard-to-dump/" target="_blank">http://opinion.financialpost.com/2010/06/15/junk-&#8230;</a> </p>
<p>You are not very good at spreading alarmist propaganda on CiF forums. Perhaps you should consider taking up another hobby.</p>
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